Downfall Coalition

[soog]

I've always kinda had issues with the different members of downfall... by that i mean, brang drives me fucking nuts and po is unstable (remember his gquit in the middle of MC)... then there was this lit mail thing ( i know we dont know who it is, but i feel like most of the suspicion lies on them)... and the whole hinata thing.

does anyone else feel like ... wait, wait, here it comes... getting rid of the downfall coalition would significantly improve our situation as a guild? I feel like this could be as simple as cutting off the head of the monster, brang.

[Shavnir]

Brang has offered to gquit to attone for her actions w/ hinata.

We wouldn't be acting on rumours and assumptions, people would see our reasoning and nobody most likely would feel like they were treated unfairly.

the only real problems i have with anyone gquitting, is to me it seems like "ok, i got some purples, knowledge of end game, now i have a better shot at another end game guild. lets hope i get /poached."

even if thats not the case of them quitting, thats how i see it as. hell i like treds a lot, shes mad cool, but she left and took some of the loot we could be using to gear up people who are going to stay with. not cool. same goes for anyone whos left.

so by bragwin gquitting to attone for her actions makes up for them in no way that i see. shes just leaving with loot we could've given someone else.

[Tenskatawa]

A little OT but.. if you have a problem with Treds, talk to her. She doesn't bite :P

i have talked with treds about her leaving. im just speaking about anyone leaving in genreal

[soog]

i dont really care about people quitting with loots or anything like that, if they feel like its their time to go, then its their time to go

but i feel like this downfall coalition has been a central figure in much of the drama, i can come up with even more examples if you like

forget treds that's another discussion. i just want to see if im out there on my own in left field or if other people agree with me on the problems caused by this guild within our guild. (a lot of these sentiments peaked upon my reading the entire hintara (sp?) thread today)

ive already posted my concerns about there still being a downfall existing inside of hammered numerous times.

[Bechoseveth]

So yeah, I did it again, posted something uber provocative on the hinata thread, so heads up.

Tired of this shit, acting politicial when people are pissing on our legs and telling us its raining, all we do is just slap em on the wrist.

They gonna take that post, they gonna eat it, or shits gon go down.

My declaration of war...

...bitches

[Bishan]

i bet bech's post was edited to add "...bitches"

[Bishan]

bah, I had them in the position of "dejected" and now you went and stirred em up into the militant stage. gd it.

it was actually edited to add "My declaration of war....bitches."

[Bishan]

I ended the thread. There's no point stirring them up when we finally kicked their asses in line. Attacking them outright only strengthens them as a group. There are some people that are fully becoming hammered, but when pressed might still flip out and join up....ie oygad, bob, etc etc. Those are people we dont want to lose. If we want to stamp this shit out we have to solidify the outlying parties with Hammered more first, then when douchery appears you will see the former Downfall chide their own old guildmates for being douches. We're not at that point yet.

i was almost inclined to post something about that beign your final thought, like on jerry springer. but then you locked the thread so i gave up.

btw post more...im almost caught up and it saddens me.

[Bechoseveth]

I STRONGLY disagree. By avoiding hashing out this issue, you do nothing but promote it. It needs to be stomped on, not swept under the carpet. Lit just alerted me on vent that you locked the thread before I posted it, and I /copy /deleted it, but I still think it needs to be said. If oygad knew about the conspiracy, he is group two, if he just knew about jiraiyas main without the little lie, then he's group 3. You arent interested in seeing who these people are? DoTo do that you need to stir up the pot bish.

[soog]

im with bech on this, our hoping that things will work out is one thing that has hurt hammered at times and makes us weak as officers. Like i said, cut off the head and the body will die.

[Bechoseveth]

I'm not sure I see brangwin as a head, this stunt was shweex's brainchild. Not knowing where the real head is, if any, I want to strike at the heart. Not just one, but at all. This issue needs to be brought out in the open and dealt with now. Otherwise the issue will continue to grow, intolerable behavior will be tolerated, the good people will burn out and leave, and then we know who will be left. Would you have Lit's letterbomb threat be realized?

Whether you realize it or not, we've been at a civil war for a while now. For the love of god man, lets make this a gettysburg to remember. This entire issue has been prolonged so much, and the wrong mentalities have been encouraged because we have either taken too long to react, or havent reacted at all in fear of what it may look like.

We need to bust out the belt and teach these punks who's the leadership around here. Atm this isnt a guild, this is like one of those highschool classes in harlem ruled by the unruly gangster students. I'm not pulling a Black Torrent when I want to bust out the whoopass here. Does anyone think jubana would tolerate that shit? Can anyone think of a single guild on darkspear alive today that would tolerate that shit? Of course not, because any guild that did tolerate that shit simply would not be alive today. Example: Downfall

Some days youre the dog, some days youre the hydrant. I'm done being the hydrant, seriously.

[Bishan]

i didnt read bech's last post here yet, but... I agree we do need to stomp on it, but i feel like stomping on it the way you did and the timing was poor. we need to wait a tiny bit longer, there are people on the verge of cutting themselves out of the downfall group, and if we stomp too early they'll feel they hvae to stick up for downfall. if we let them excise themselves first, we'll be in the stronger position.

[Bechoseveth]

Too many examples lost, too many battles yielded.

We dont need to boot em bish, but we can slap em around until they confess that bringing their own grill to another mans barbeque is fucking stupid and socially unacceptable.

The trick with bootings is whether or not there was a lack of warning. This will be our warning, if it happens again, THEN we boot.

Dont let us miss this chance.

[Shadaraman]

Wow, stay away for a couple days and you miss a lot....

so i havent brought this out to the attention of the whole guild again, like i did with the mail, but ive been recieving random ass tells about "leaving so 'people who deserve' to be in my place can be there" and such from a series of lvl 1 alts. though a lot of it now is centered around me leaving so brang can move up to OT for good. the mail was more about me in general, but i think whoever is behind the "get lit to leave" train is slippin up with these has-a-clear-meaning tells. and it is more than one person now for sure, as i was gettin them from different people at the same time. i also dont think it can come from someone outside of the guild, as i got a few of these on KJ last night. which is what surprised me the most.

now that i think about it, i shouldve taken screenies last night but i was pretty out of it and didnt cross my mind at all until just now.

she also made a comment about something on tuesday which didnt really bother me until now, and its raised a red flag. kevv was talkin about how getting the 8 piece might would be awesome for stug and i to get it on the same run, cause itd help out a huge amount on onyxia, and various other aggro fights. she said something to the extent of "hey i have almost the same amount as lit, so either one of us would be good." it wasnt worded that way, its just a variation, i laughed at the comment at the time, but now with what happend last night and over the past few days of me loggin in, its looking to me that both mail and tellspam are coming from "we love brangwin" activist group in guild. headed by her? didnt think so at first, but possibly now.