0 Sum, a solution.

[Kaylend]

"My guild gives some incentive dkp for learning encounters, this type of thing inflates the system so it's not zero sum anymore. This is why it would need to be zeroed - say you have 50 raiders, you add everyone up and the total is 500 instead of 0. Take 500, divide by 50, and subtract 10 from everyone's score. Standings stay the same but your sum is zero again."-Random person on the raid forums

They are reffering to something as "Zeroing out". I believe this is exactly what we... well atleast I am looking for.

So, we give points to people who are willing to give in the extra effort without breaking 0 Sum... I feel some how we missed this.

Points are given to people who put in extra effort, things like being on time, learning new things, staying the entirety of the raid, and so on but after reaching an amount of points that off sets the 0 sum by enough, you "Zero out" the total of all the raiders. Say we set it at 500 points, every time our total DKP adds up to 500 we zero it out... and if we have "50 active" raiders... We take the Offset/Raiders = the amount subtracted by everyones points. This prevent inflation, and reward hard workers.

[Bishan]

Originally Posted by Kaylend

"My guild gives some incentive dkp for learning encounters, this type of thing inflates the system so it's not zero sum anymore. This is why it would need to be zeroed - say you have 50 raiders, you add everyone up and the total is 500 instead of 0. Take 500, divide by 50, and subtract 10 from everyone's score. Standings stay the same but your sum is zero again."-Random person on the raid forums

They are reffering to something as "Zeroing out". I believe this is exactly what we... well atleast I am looking for.

So, we give points to people who are willing to give in the extra effort without breaking 0 Sum... I feel some how we missed this.

Points are given to people who put in extra effort, things like being on time, learning new things, staying the entirety of the raid, and so on but after reaching an amount of points that off sets the 0 sum by enough, you "Zero out" the total of all the raiders. Say we set it at 500 points, every time our total DKP adds up to 500 we zero it out... and if we have "50 active" raiders... We take the Offset/Raiders = the amount subtracted by everyones points. This prevent inflation, and reward hard workers.

We discussed this in a thread about 1.5 months ago. It makes sense, but I've yet to look at it mathematically to see how viable it is.

[Shadaraman]

Well, I haven't looked closely either, but it does seem like it would work.

[Gil]

Yeah, i'll look at it closely too....

[schattenlord]

So I stuck my face real close to the monitor and it makes the same amount of sense as it did when the monitor was farther away.

[Bishan]

Originally Posted by schattenlord

So I stuck my face real close to the monitor and it makes the same amount of sense as it did when the monitor was farther away.

Hahaha. Awesome. FYI, your roomate told me to let you know you still need to pay the rent for December noob. Obviously the best place to do this was the forums.

[schattenlord]

God damnit, this is his month to pay rent.

[Kaylend]

Originally Posted by schattenlord

God damnit, this is his month to pay rent.

Rent FTL....

[Shadaraman]

Originally Posted by schattenlord

So I stuck my face real close to the monitor and it makes the same amount of sense as it did when the monitor was farther away.

I tried this as well. Then I played with the resolution on my monitor. Then I took a screenshot and zoomed way in. Then I wrote the idea on a piece of paper and ate it. Then I inscribed it on my contacts for a day. It continues to make a identical amount of sense, accounting for quantum deviance.

[Gil]

There is a nonzero probability that this makes sense.

[Shavnir]

I heard at 20% this idea despawns.

THANKS FOR LETTING US KNOW BLIZZ!

[Gil]

ok, i've given this a non-trivial amount of thought, and wtf i'm in the middle of finals... i shouldn't be thinking about this shit. more later.

[Kaylend]

bump!... recent drama has seem to knock this idea off the map....

[Gil]

Ok, since ya bumped it, here are my thoughts:

This is a really good system. You still have to take care to balance dkp "sources" (bonus points for on time, etc) with "sinks" (peneltys for talking during loot, etc). It can become easy to only award good behavior and not have any sinks cause people bitch. While zeroing out counteracts a source to sink imbalance, it still shouldn't be extreme.

Also, this takes care of people leaving with a nonzero dkp balance, and creating artificial dkp inflation/deflation.

One suggestion tho: in a zero sum system, the "equilibrium point" (where someone should drift toward if they're not active) should be zero, not negative infinity. If we continuously add too many points to the system, and subtract some dkp from everyone to balance it out, someone who's around 0 and isn't very active could end up being really really hurt by this.

The solution is kinda complicated. Basically, you fix the lowest person and rescale everyone else so that the new sum is zero. I'll work on the equation later.

But like i said, this system is good. We should do it.

[Tenskatawa]

What about wasted points?

[walkamoly]

there aren't wasted points, everything just gets scaled to 500 or whatever. Kinda like if there is a total of 2342342323 DKP out there, you take it and turn it into 100%, then distribute percentages out to everyone. no problem.